Minor Axis

Well, if we knew all of the answers it would not be a mystery would it?

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

lumpenstein

First of all, that 6 thousand year age for the Eartfh, Universe and us is pure bullshit. It has nothing to do with the bible, which you can believe all you want, if you want to.

The above is from this site: Bishop Ussher Dates the World: 4004 BC

1701 AD folks, perfect example of how the orginial books of the bible have been altered, edited and corrupted over the years. That's only 3 hundred years ago, not way back when, with god summoning Moses or some other biblical character and saying "Got your hammer ready and your chisel sparpened? Good! I want you to carve this in stone..."

The bible is mostly a book of metaphors. Ussher's attempt to quantify it is one of the earliest and more profoundly futile attempts to use science to prove god.

siasl

but that's the cool thing 'bout science....it'll ask that question, and then go study the universe to learn the answer....along the way, it'll come to grips with awe, humilty, and mystery....things that the question (and the answer, when it's finally unravelled) will not dismiss, but amplify

as a result, we grow in many different ways....one of them is the increase in knowledge, and all its toys -technology- but also we learn respect, and reverance, and all the rest of the stuff a god tells people are important all the time, and that they accept as important because they believe.

the whole god thing imo, just demands first that you (the generic you) be lost, in order to come to the place of awe and humility and mystery, and then tells you that these things are not a part of the answer....they're a part of the question....one that is put to rest by god, if you just believe.

i vote for asking the questions and not having the answers given to me. i vote for awe and humility -for standing on the blue of the sky- rather than the pride of comfort, sitting on the firmament of faith.

so....about this evolution thing.....when do we start?

lumpenstein

You are late to the party; we have been evolving for years!

siasl

hehehe....just point me to the tongue-in-cheek smilie

Valentin

I believe that aliens altered our ancestors DNA to create us.

lumpenstein

I believe you just post bullshit just to get a reaction.

Valentin

Belief does not effect reality. If that's all you have to say, then we may as well cease communications. If you're interested in talking about the theory, then go ahead.

siasl

ok....i love science fiction, and this notion has always intrigued me...but it also strikes me as being just as humanocentric as relgion.....

the universe is a big place....what the fuck is so special about the earth (from the standpoint of an alien species) that they'd wanna mess with dna here?

or do you see it as the result of some vast intragalatic research?....a sort of "god is really not all powerful....just pretty dang powerful, if you include the technology of space flight and genetic manipulation"

i mean, the "what ifs" are great fun to consider....but really.....why is this third option any more acceptable than the god option?

Minor Axis

Without any kind of proof, anything is possible.

Planets that support life are few and far between?

Aliens vs God are really two different arguments. However from the available evidence both are just as possible or not possible depending on your perception and your faith. My opinion is we have more evidence for aliens flying around in our skys then we do of a specific God with specific attributes.

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

Valentin

I'd really like to put my thoughts on this in their own thread. Stay tuned.

siasl

i can see the truth in this....but disagree....certainly, considering specific religous perspectives, the two are miles apart.....

but as an outsider to both beliefs, what strikes me are their similarities....how the human species has some special place in the scheme of life....and how our intelligence is the prime result of that specialness...a gift from a being far beyond our understanding.

to accept that aliens intervened once is to assume, imo, that they are still capable of, and do, intervene as they choose...which presupposes that if you prayed to them, they might take notice.

the only significant difference is the behavior that a religious perspective dictates as important for eternity.



but we have no evidence what so ever that sometime in our evolution, our dna was purposefully tweaked in the direction of rational thought.

a better arguement could perhaps be made that rational thought, for all that it has done to influence the direction and success of our species, has, as maybe its fatal flaws, an on/off button that is too hard to find, and a lack of filters that can separate the wheat of logic from the chaff of denial.

but then, this, too is another thread.

Minor Axis

That's human psychology at work as we've always thought we were special. At one point we were at the center of the Universe. Now we realize we aren't because our study of science disproved that notion. What else will science disprove? lots.

The entire aliens altered our DNA accusation at this point in time, based on the lack of evidence is just a thrilling fantasy as far as I can tell. But I do remember those space ship glifs from ancient Egypt.

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

lumpenstein

Fuckin' awsome!!! You cease and I will continue talking actual sense with the people here that show intelligence! Why don't you go run and play. Start a makeup thread!

siasl

but my point is that evolution, like cosmology, debunks the psychology of human nature.....and it is the only one of these theories that does so

as a sidebar, the idea of the "psycology of human nature" speaks to the lack of filters i mentioned earlier, imo

imo, these other theories are the result of human psychology...they both have wonderful appeal, depending on the perceptions and faith you mentioned....they both answer tons of questions and give the whole question of "purpose" something "tangible" to hang its hat on (evidence be damned )

in that sense alone, they are worth thieir wieght in conciousness for billions of people...they cannot and should not be dismissed, regardless of one's opinions surrounding them (not saying you are....just saying)

yeah...like i said, i love science fictions

it is a wonderful and mysterious place, and we are wonderful and mysterious critters...what will future anthropologists say about our stuff?