Minor Axis

And tell me do you feel pro-liberal choices are divisive?

The definition of divisive should have something to do with how many people are polarized.

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"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

gLing

The problem with US politics today is almost everybody is polarized one way or another. You get a liberal president in there then his decisions will be considered divisive by the right just like the left tend to think Bush is divisive simply because he doesn't do things their way.

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Fox Mulder

Well you also have to define it as negative or positive. Simply because an issue is divisive doesn't mean its negative to take a stand on it. A good example is abortion--extremely divisive issue. One could say that Bush's pro-life stand is divisive--does that mean its negative? No--of course not--there are good arguments on both sides of the abortion issue.

Liberals don't like Bush because he doesn't cave or compromise on the pet liberal issues. If you want to see that as a negative, fine, but I see it as a positive when a leader sticks by his convictions even if its not the most popular decision. I FIRMLY believe that in 10 or 20 years, history will prove that the removal of Hussein was the right decision. It was divisive--Bush knew it wasn't going to be a popular decision (people generally don't like wars), and through all the criticism, he has maintained his position.

Minor Axis

[quote=Fox Mulder;699150]Liberals don't like Bush because he doesn't cave or compromise on the pet liberal issues./QUOTE]

I'm more liberal than you, but I'm still moderate.

I don't like Bush mostly because he is an idiot. But specifically he makes bad decisions and before he makes the bad decisions, he does not look for the "what ifs". Being tough is not the same as being smart and this administration has proven it over and over.

President Reagan reported wanted and actively asked for contrary opinions to any plan of his. The Bush Admin just wants "yes" men servicing them...

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

Strauss

Generally, no but always stupid.

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Color is the deed and sufferings of light.......Goethe

Where there is one religion, there is despotism; where there are two, civil war. Let there be thirty religions and they will live together in peace........Voltaire

Fox Mulder

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafuckinghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Okay, seriously Minor--you are a rationalizer par excellance--I got new for ya--you are liberal my friend--very liberal.

groundpounder

watching two yellow dogs go at it is entertaining, albeit slightly disturbing...

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Fox Mulder

Go back to sleep GP--we'll wake ya up after the election!

Minor Axis

Your very predictable.

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

siasl

neat trick there, fox.....you have diverted this thread from ITS intention, to yours....which is apparently

1. to equate the junior bush's convictions to lincoln's
2. to infer that liberals don't have the gumption to make the hard choices....and that is at the heart of any discussion of divisiveness.

but i'll run with it for abit

i take no issue with your applause of the junior bush for the strenght of his convictions (certainly he believes he's done the right things, and -more than likely- didn't arrive at his decisions without some soul searching)....and "strenght of conviction" is a necessary quality for a leader.

but while those three words describe a quality that is necessary for a leader....the quality alone is not sufficient to justify the devisiveness that usually follows on the heels of a tough decision.

it is the motivation for the decision.....and self-righteousness alone (lincoln's or jr. bush) don't make it so, either.

lincoln's motivation was concise....damn hard to miss....slavery in a country of free people (regardless of its economic benefits) was just wrong......end of story.

jr. bush's motivations?(particularly wrt iraq)....it's boiled out to kind of choose your own adventure, hasn't it? was it terrorism?...was it wmd?....was it bringing democracy to the freedom starved iraqis?.....was it oil (economic opprotunity)?....not once did he state the obvious....the region is fucked up, and we mean to do something about it. (could it be that he didn't say that because it dovetailed a bit too closely to hussein's own opinion?)

as you said, lincoln didn't care what people thought....he abolished slavery because he saw it as the right thing to do.....but he was honest about his motivations....and that's why he is a great president...politics was secondary.....

bush however, tried desperately to make his reasoning palatable....to play the game of politics.

imo, you cant lay all the political bs at jr. bush's feet -times have changed (we're so accepting of "career politicans" nowadays that we EXPECT politics to play a role in every decision -that's our fault)....but you can lay his lack of honesty at his feet....."strenght of conviction" demands that, imo, if it is to mean anything going forward.

Alien Allen

Hi Bob

siasl

"location: none of your business"

gotta be the IPN

...hi ya bill

Alien Allen

Welcome Bob

Fox Mulder

Looks like Mulder got to kick Iltos' ass all over another forum. Man--are they checking credentials--can't believe all the liberals they are letting in this forum!!!

You got another ally there Minor!!!

siasl

others might say i skeered you off

but one thing's for sure.....the quality of conservative thought has definitely degraded there (if that's possible )

i remain a non-aligned nation