valley

Chieftan

I hate religion, it divides people. If god would just come down and tell us what to do, but no. Thats why their being no god is most logic. And if their is no god, guess what, forums like this form up to debate because only humans can speak for god.

GraceAbounds

I plan on addressing this Andre. I have not forgotten it, I have just been too busy with other things to type it out with the attention it deserves.

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Minor Axis

Wrestling with questions is good if they have not been satisfactorily answered, wouldn't you say? This is the heart of the debate. You accept a Christian God and that he is perfect based on a feeling. There may be those who are easily swayed by stories of faith because they need reassurance in their lives, you can convince them.

But since there is no evidence that establishes the nature of existence after physical death or the nature of God, everyone ultimately goes on their feelings/faith. If I don't feel it, I don't feel it. Please don't hold it against me. I'd say lack of evidence and and an absentee God is the problem and if there is a God, I hold him 100% responsible for a broken relationship with mankind.

The primary reasons why people have problems with specific religious beliefs:
1) Source documentation is suspect (manipulated, edited, no ability to verify)
2) Human's tendency to manipulate others.
3) Absentee God- Except direct interaction might not help either. There are so many Star Trek episodes where technically superior beings are posing as Gods, I would not know what to believe.
4) Coerced to believe based on only a feeling you may or may not have? And in many cases condemned if you don't believe.

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"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

Andre

God is perfect - therefore everything that has happened was necessary and is also good. Very comforting. Tell that to the damned.

Thank you for attempting to address this anyway, and I can assure you that you are in very good company for failing - it is not your fault - God has not provided you with the answer. But if I was in your position I would suggest that God is omnipotent and can therefore commit infinite acts which are logical and illogical at the same time.

Andre

Back on topic - I think Jesus was intended to be "a sacrifice" - neither God nor Jesus sacrificed much - that is not the point.

The penalty for sin had to be paid with innocent blood in a sacrificial offering. This was to fulfil the Law. It does not imply that Jesus suffered intensely or that God the Father was pained by this. Indeed Jesus' life and sufferring was likely inconsequential to them both on a purely personal level. That is not the point at all. The point was fulfilling and ending the Law.

All Else Failed

Dying then coming back as good as knew isn't sacrificing anything.

valley

Do I see sarcasm in you, Andre?

You took me to task for my bad behavior in post #29 for saying "I agree" when I did not agree...now here you are saying "very comforting" when you dont mean it either. Does anyone else see a "double standard" here?

well I did give you an answer...you just do not believe it so there is nothing more that I can say to convince you.

What you just said reminds me of the question "if God can do anything, can He make a rock too big for Him to carry?' Its a nonsensical. If God is all-knowing then everything makes sense and nothing is illogical to Him. It may be illogical to humans but thats because we are not God.

Andre

There is no double standard. You were putting words in my mouth whereas I was being obviously sarcastic in a very serious manner from my own perspective, in an effort to HIGHLIGHT the eternal plight of perhaps billions of souls.


The only answer I recall is the biblical quotation that the world was not created in vain. That is not an answer unless you believe the bible to be an error free account of the word of God.


Good - it was intended to remind you of that. So if God is all knowing 1+1=2 and 1+1=12 and 1+1=345743? I don't understand. In fact when Jesus is described as The Word in John it is a translation of the Greek term Logos, which denotes pure reason and has even been interpreted as logic.

Perhaps if God is all-knowing he has a perfect understanding of what is logical and what is not logical, as opposed to everything being logical?