Temperamental

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?

Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.


There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims (terrorists) themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.


For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:


"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.


Another similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.


This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).


Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.


The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."


(Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?) By: Christine Huda Dodge

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-Invader Zim, ice cream vendor.

groundpounder

what does this have to do with Christian extremists flying planes into buildings?

Or an atheist blowing up a building in Oklahoma City?

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groundpounder

to be frank, those don't sound like the musings of a peace-loving religion, but I can't tell from here.

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Zorak

Well I'd argue in defence of Islam that the Bible says the exact same thing, an eye for an eye and all that.

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"...I will die alone, upside down, in a pub toilet."


Hey hey, My my, Rock and Roll can never die.

Everything is just a Mistero Buffo

Temperamental

nothing. this is just about islam.

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-Invader Zim, ice cream vendor.

wednesday

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

Very good ...can you explain to me this passage?..."muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non combatants?

Im a lil confused...you see, i could produce a list of deaths caused by muslims, and they where all innocent bystanders...many children?

Maybe im wrong? *coughs*

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groundpounder

The Crusades were Christianity's jihad.

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GraceAbounds

Why do most Muslim countries oppress others that are in their same culture? (the oppression of women is one example) Yet they claim to fight oppression?

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groundpounder

exactlywere the people who attacked Pearl Harbor Japanese?

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groundpounder

Temp, you're not going to find too many fans in this thread. Just a heads up...

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Zorak

And in modern day there is the Klu Klux Klan

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"...I will die alone, upside down, in a pub toilet."


Hey hey, My my, Rock and Roll can never die.

Everything is just a Mistero Buffo

groundpounder

ladies and gentlemen, exhibit B.

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groundpounder

Religion is the problem

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Zorak

People are the problem I would say

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"...I will die alone, upside down, in a pub toilet."


Hey hey, My my, Rock and Roll can never die.

Everything is just a Mistero Buffo

wednesday

AT LEAST 56 people died in a string of suicide attacks in Iraq – including three women bombers who blew themselves up – in separate incidents in Baghdad and Kirkuk yesterday.
Scores of people were wounded in the attacks, which came after a relative lull in the sectarian violence that has ravaged the country since February 2006, when insurgents blew up a Shiite mosque in the central city of Samarra.
The triple suicide attack in Baghdad killed at least 25 pilgrims, as they headed to a holy shrine for a major religious ceremony on the Shiite Muslim calendar, that has been marred by bloodshed in the past .
Another 27 people died and 126 others were wounded in a suicide bombing during a protest rally in the northern oil city of Kirkuk, and gunfire in a panic stampede that followed.
Among the dead in the Baghdad bombings were women and children, hospital officials said, adding that about 70 other people were injured in the incident.

“The United States condemns the violent attacks on innocent Iraqis,” National Security Council spokesperson Gordon Johndroe said.
“We urge the Iraqi people and government to respond with calm determination to the threat from violent extremists who seek to destabilise the country,” he added.
The bombers struck in the Karrada district of central Baghdad as pilgrims were making their way on foot towards Kadhimiyah, the site of a Shiite festival today in the north of the Iraqi capital.
“At least 25 people were killed and more than 70 were wounded in three suicide attacks, probably by female suicide bombers,” a police official said.
On Sunday, gunmen shot dead seven pilgrims in Madin, a town south of Baghdad, despite the tight security organised for the ceremony, which is to honour revered imam Mussa Kadhim, who died 12 centuries ago.
U p to one million worshippers were expected. With the influx of pilgrims into the city, Iraqi police are now worried about a possible wave of attacks .



The attack in Kirkuk targeted a crowd of people who were protesting a controversial provincial election law, police said.
A suicide bomber detonated his explosives amid the crowd, causing a stampede that prompted guards to open fire .
“The victims were people who ran away after the explosion, and guards opened fire, shooting into the air,” said Najat Hassam, a senior member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party .
“More people then responded to the gunfire with more shooting.”
Kirkuk is often the scene of tensions among Kurds, Arabs and Turk s.
The latest violence was sparked by protests over controversial legislation for planned provincial elections currently being reviewed by the Iraqi parliament . Kurds are worried that the law will fail to address issues relating to how the provincial council of Kirkuk should be constituted.
In other incidents, another three men and a woman were killed in a roadside bombing near Baquba, north of Baghdad . — Sapa-AFP

Can you point out who was the enemy plse??

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