Islam-Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"? - Page 2

groundpounder · 08-04-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wednesday

Can you point out who was the enemy plse??

looks like muslim on muslim violence...

gLing · 08-04-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groundpounder

The Crusades were Christianity's jihad.

I thought the crusades were about taking back land the muslims took.

wednesday · 08-04-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groundpounder

looks like muslim on muslim violence...

yes, correct... just a lil reminder..

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.
enough said??

gLing · 08-04-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wednesday

yes, correct... just a lil reminder..

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.
enough said??

Seems more like a crafty spin job to me. lol

wednesday · 08-04-2008, 07:51 PM

I agree...

. but not by me..big smiles...n hello,lol

gLing · 08-04-2008, 07:55 PM

Also it doesn't really matter what verses say in any religion. People will twist them and use them as rallying cry to do great harm. Christians on a wide scale did that before and now you have entire islamic theocratic nations that do it now.

It could say plain as day be nice to everybody but it will be spin doctored to mean only be nice to those who believe exactly as you do.

groundpounder · 08-04-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gLing

I thought the crusades were about taking back land the muslims took.

sort of....

valley · 08-04-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temperamental

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims (terrorists) themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

I have a question. Does the word "misguided" here imply that terrorists are true Muslims or not?

Zorak · 08-04-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groundpounder

sort of....

Yeah, originally the Crusades were given this mission.

But there's no doubt that organisations like the Knights Templar had a large say on the actions of the Crusades, and as such their wars extended far beyond the Holy Land and against Islam

valley · 08-04-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temperamental

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?

Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

One more question....can you tell me how the Battle of Badr fits in with this teaching? Wasnt it Muhammad who planned and ordered the attack on his enemies? If what you say is true...that Muslims cant fight unless they are attacked first...then how do you explain Muhammad telling his army to go and make war like that?

Dana · 08-04-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gLing

Also it doesn't really matter what verses say in any religion. People will twist them and use them as rallying cry to do great harm. Christians on a wide scale did that before and now you have entire islamic theocratic nations that do it now.

It could say plain as day be nice to everybody but it will be spin doctored to mean only be nice to those who believe exactly as you do.

Minor Axis · 08-04-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAbounds

Why do most Muslim countries oppress others that are in their same culture? (the oppression of women is one example) Yet they claim to fight oppression?

Suppression of women could be a cultural issue, you know the cave men in charge?

valley · 08-04-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minor Axis

Suppression of women could be a cultural issue, you know the cave men in charge?

The extent of the suppression is unique to Islam.

Temperamental · 08-05-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wednesday

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

Very good ...can you explain to me this passage?..."muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non combatants?

Im a lil confused...you see, i could produce a list of deaths caused by muslims, and they where all innocent bystanders...many children?

Maybe im wrong? *coughs*

Those are Muslim terrorists who misinterpret the Quran.I think this will explain it further: (link) Islam Denounces Terrorism

Temperamental · 08-05-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valley

One more question....can you tell me how the Battle of Badr fits in with this teaching? Wasnt it Muhammad who planned and ordered the attack on his enemies? If what you say is true...that Muslims cant fight unless they are attacked first...then how do you explain Muhammad telling his army to go and make war like that?

It was a defensive battle. This explains it all:
The Battle of Badr - a battle between Truth and falsehood

08-04-2008, 07:51 PM	#20
wednesday OTz Most Hated Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,093 Tokenz: 21,699	Re: Islam-Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"? I agree.... but not by me..big smiles...n hello,lol __________________ Thanks to Peter.....

08-04-2008, 07:55 PM	#21
gLing The Bionic Hobbit! Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,158 Tokenz: 7,708	Re: Islam-Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"? Also it doesn't really matter what verses say in any religion. People will twist them and use them as rallying cry to do great harm. Christians on a wide scale did that before and now you have entire islamic theocratic nations that do it now. It could say plain as day be nice to everybody but it will be spin doctored to mean only be nice to those who believe exactly as you do. __________________

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