Minor Axis

I'm not trying to pick a fight. The debate has never been about what has happened to the individual and how they interpret it, it's been about what/who is God and the history of God as described in historical text. If you tell me you have been saved, I don't dispute that.

In this thread the author asks:
The Bible says that Jesus was a ransom sacrifice who died to set us free. Is this ransom paid to God or to the Devil? If to God, then why did God kill his own son to set us free when he could have just set us free and keep his son? If the ransom was paid to the devil, then how could the devil be on such great bargaining terms with God to demand his very son?

Replying with personal experiences or as related to personal experiences expresses the devotion and sincerity of the individual towards their religion, but does nothing to answer these types of questions (most likely because these questions can't be answered in any factual way).

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"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

RecklessTim

I think you guys are talking about different classifications of the term "Fact"

You can't say something is fact because "you" experienced it in your life. For example... You may be experiencing a hard time and are in need of food/money. Well you pray about it at church and right after other members start bringing bags of food and some money to help. So is it a fact that God helped you in this situation? Or is it a case of people hearing about your needs and they help as a community? It's all subjective. If it were truly the work of God, he would have put the food in the cupboards for you.

Facts are something that can be verified, not something "you" have experienced in your life as interpreted by "you".

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Mr President;
It has been reported that you are here to "lecture" us on democracy and human rights. But with a record like yours, you will not be very convincing.

GraceAbounds

Nor am I. Sorry if I have in some way given you that impression. It is not my intention.

Yes, and I answered the opening poster's questions. The conversation did change and go off topic though. Imagine that! Here at offtopic, going offtopic! LOL!

I disagree. When I answered the OP I was not talking about my own devotion or sincerity toward religions/etc., I was specifically answering/addressing the question in the OP.

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GraceAbounds

The source of God's love is what moves people to bring those bags of food. If you asked believers if they would have brought those bags of food before experiencing God, 99% of them would tell you that they would not have brought the food.

One of the many ways God works is through people.

Though to get technical, every bit of food on this planet comes from God as he is the creator, so in essence, yes he did put the food in the cupboard himself.

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groundpounder

Gracie, you're in fine form. Nice work. Lots of rep in this thread.

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Minor Axis

Hmm, I thought your answer was an analogy of saving a flock of geese and how that pertains to man being saved by Jesus especially when they are being tricked into going into the barn and under normal circumstances would have no part of it. Not really to the point imo.

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"