Obdurate

F U!

That's all you get from this congregation.

__________________
Give me the dust of my fathers
Stand on the face of the ancients
Bare the secret flesh of time itself

Minor Axis

I assure you that my intention is not to bash your or anyone's beliefs. I approach religion as a logical matter. Some traditional beliefs don't add up to me so I'm generating some discussion regarding the weak points as I see them. One problem I do see is an attitude by some religious people that their beliefs are not to be questioned. If you have "religion" figured out, that is great. But there are some of us here still trying to find our way, and that does not mean we will necessarily arrive at the same conclusions you have.

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"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

Peter Parka

Well if you've got a decent answer to the question, it wouldn't keep coming up, would it?

So dont fucking read them or post in them then, jeez

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pladecalvo

Well the whole thing about arguing religion is that you can only argue with those who want to argue back.

So YOU don't see it.......then leave it to those that do see it.

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You never hear in the news... 200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North.- Doug Stanhope

Andre

Well this thread surprised me.

Personally I want my beliefs to stand up to scrutiny and be logically coherent, but that's not a universal feeling I know.

I am too new to comment further really - I don't know the history of these threads, but plenty of devout religious people ask themselves these hard questions, and it's part of the reason that different denominations of Christianity exist. I don't think it is bashing anyone's beliefs to discuss GLARING issues.

Minor Axis

Disclaimer: I think I got a little carried away with logical arguments. I'm going to make a general apology to anyone who thinks I am bashing their religion. I know that many of my statements come across as anti-Christian. But lately I've taken a few pokes at Islam too. Admittedly, I don't have it all figured out. I feel any religious commitment you make is based on a feeling in your heart and a lack of real evidence, which is good enough for many but not for me. I just don't see enough or feel enough to make any kind of a commitment to any particular theism.

And I realize and have previously stated that most religious faith-based debate is a total waste of time to everyone except maybe those sitting on the fence. Maybe we can influence you one way or the other. I assure you that no one had a direct influence on my Agnostic leanings. It's something I slowly came to realize. When I was a teenager and joined the church, I was just going through the motions to make the adults happy. If you have it all figured out, more power to you. On the other hand, please don't view me as a lost soul. I am perfectly content with where I am in this life. I think we are all in for a big surprise when we make the leap over the gaping jaws of death.

In the future I'll try to limit my comments to picking apart your arguments instead of starting new threads on my own.

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

Butler

Obdurate

There's a difference between debating religion and getting into heated arguments. Heated arguments continue to cause wars and at the very least hurt feelings. Some people -- and I won't mention names -- go on forums to argue just religion and it's so pointless it's ridiculous.

Minor is cool. He'll debate religion but he debates tons of other things as well.

And I absolutely love how freedom of speech only works one way for some people. I have every right to get after people for arguing religion, just like you people have every right to tell me to fuck off. It's funny how that works. "Don't come into the threads," doesn't really fly, considering I'm trying to make a point here and the only way you can create any kind of change is to tempt the waters. At the very least people should consider what they're doing themselves if others are saying they're going overboard. But people don't do that because people are stubborn.

Edit: Oh and both people who "got after me" should really read my last post before they comment. I said there's been quality religious threads made. It's not complaining unless you're complaining about religion, Butler? Double standards buddy. It's also hard not to notice when every single thread in the Debate section is about religion (it's an exaggeration but the point remains).

__________________
Give me the dust of my fathers
Stand on the face of the ancients
Bare the secret flesh of time itself

pladecalvo

....because of where they were born, raised and their indoctrination through childhood.

__________________
You never hear in the news... 200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North.- Doug Stanhope

Butler

Obdurate

lol I remember him. He seemed really nice but I couldn't wrap my mind around how he could only discuss one thing... all the time.

__________________
Give me the dust of my fathers
Stand on the face of the ancients
Bare the secret flesh of time itself

lovinglife45

I disagree with this...... Dont get me wrong there are people who do this.... But its the wrong way to get any message across.... Most chrisitans who know the love that is offered do not use fear as a "tactic".

__________________
Life Is Fire!

Someone in my dictionary's up to no good

gillibean

I did not say most christians, I said many of them. Most christians know better than to threaten people, though in my experience fear is still used subtly and without realizing it.

lovinglife45

well then i am sorry you came in contact with people who use those kinds of methods to teach someone about God.

__________________
Life Is Fire!

Someone in my dictionary's up to no good

gillibean

The ones I've met personally don't even realize that they are using fear. They truly care about the people and misguidedly attempt to bring them over to their side because they are utterly convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong, never mind what logic or common sense says.