valley

You did not seem to mind derailing the thread when you brought up the "undeniable contradictions" found in the Bible. ...all I was doing was answering them.

No, its a common deduction that most people arrive at when reading the text. Its the same sort of deductive reasoning that any investigator would do when faced with a mystery. Since the Bible clearly says that Judas hung himself...and then says that he fell to the ground and split open....you have to ask yourself how that could have been possible...a tree overlooking a pit is very plausible, especially given the terrain of the area.

Here is a quick google image that I found that describes what the tree might have looked like..minus the water, of course, lol..



Climb up the trunk, tie the rope, put it around your neck then step off the cliff. After hanging there for days or weeks...the rope breaks, the body falls (the Bible does not say that he jumped..it says that he fell) and splits open in the pit below. There is no way that you can deny that it is a reasonable explanation for the 2 verses. Go google up "The Potter's Field, Jerusalem" and you will see for yourself that the landscape makes the explanation even more plausible.

I have explained the "contradiction".

Please feel free to. I would also like the thread to include the right to discuss the Hadiths and the Quranic contradictions as well. I do believe that in the end, people will change their minds about their belief that Islam and Christianity share the same God.

pladecalvo

Ahh! Just as I thought... it's nothing more than 'personal interpretation'. OK, that'll do for me.

Back to the topic!

__________________
You never hear in the news... 200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North.- Doug Stanhope

valley

works for me.

First, I would like to apologize for thinking it was you who brought up the 9 contradictions in the Bible, that was Sylvia. I saw your question and then never looked back to realize that it was from a new person. Sorry about that.

anyways back on topic...do you think that Judaism, Islam and Christianity all worship the same God?

pladecalvo

Passar nada hombre! That's the problem with forums....you get talking to so many people that you get confused as to who said what!!

Mmmmm!. Difficult one and one that I've not really considered to any great extent. The gods of all religions seem to have similarities with each other but that is probably more down to each religion plagiarising the preceding one. I've heard it suggested that all religions worship the same deity....they just see the deity in different ways. Don't know how that works when you come to religions like Hinduism though....where there are so many "gods". If you twisted my arm I'd have to say no, I don't think they do......but for goodness sake don't ask me why!!

__________________
You never hear in the news... 200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North.- Doug Stanhope

Minor Axis

I guess the way to determine if your deity is the same as the other guys is by tying them together in a record of Earthly deeds? Otherwise how would you know? God as in The God is not very descriptive as compared to someone like Zeus.

__________________
"I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the Age of Men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

Sylviane88

Offtopic:

No, I don't believe so ! Jesus was not crucified on the cross.
According to your religion, take this:

Was Jesus Crucified? - The Original Sin

hhhh ... and how would you like to take a book -full of mistakes- as a holy book ??? !!! didn't I say that the bible has changed ???

Muslims know that the bible was true in the begining (the bible sent to Jesus) ... but ... after a short period of time, the bible has changed significantly! ( Jesus became GOD !, and he was crucified !!, numerical undeniable contradictions and so on !!! ... )

Therefore, to save people from error .. GOD sent his new holy book (Quran) which corrects the many errors in the distorted Bible.

God has no son.
God is the all-powerful and he doesn't need to the theatrical of sacrifice, crucifixion and humiliation by Jews.
God's book doesn't contain any errors.
God is neither a lamb nor a sheep (even if it is symbolic).
God is not 1+1+1=1.
God is not drunken (Psalm 78:65).
God does not sleep !!!
God is not racist !
the relationship between Jesus and the father will not be confusing.

The nine "undeniable contradictions" mentionned by me are not the only errors in the bible, there are so many other clear errors in your "holy book".

Brother ... you answered nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Will you do me the same courtesy regarding some question I have about Quranic text?

why wait ? !!!
I'm too hasty to see what you have !!!
Let's know !!!

Back to the topic:

Anyway, Islam came to correct the misconceptions about God in christianity. However, GOD is the same. That's all.

__________________

valley

Odd that Allah would send a book that was so full of internal errors.

1. Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
2. Can Allah be seen and did Muhammad see his Lord? Yes [S. 53:1-18, 81:15-29], No [6:102-103, 42:51]
3. To Marry or Not to Marry? The Qur'an forbids believers to marry idolatrous women [Sura 2:221], and calls Christians idolaters and unbelievers [9:28-33], but still allows Muslims to marry Christian women [5:5]
4. Will Allah reward the good deeds of Unbelievers? S. 9:17 and 9:69 clearly say no. However, S. 99:7 implies yes. Moreover, S. 2:62 promises Christians reward for their good deeds. But S. 9:28-33; 5:17, 72-73 calls Christians idolaters, and S. 9:17 is very clear that idolaters will have no reward.
5. Should Muslims Accept Peace or Not?
6. Fighting All People Until They Do What?
7. Compel them or Not?
8. How many mothers does a Muslim have? Only one [58:2, the woman who gave birth and none else], or two [4:23, including the mother who nursed him], or at least ten [33:6]?
9. And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available estate. A second example: A man leaves only his mother, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property.
10. How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21. (This article has received many Muslim responses which are quoted or linked and/or discussed at the end of the article.)
11. How many days did Allah need to destroy the people of Aad? One day [54:19] or several days [41:16; 69:6,7]
12. Six or eight days of creation? Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly state that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in 41:9-12 the detailed description of the creation procedure adds up to eight days. (This topic also includes many Muslim responses and further discussion.)
13. Quick or Slow Creation? Allah creates the heavens and the earth in six days [7:54] and many Muslims want to be modern and scientific, and make that six eons, but then again, He creates instantaneously [2:117], "Be! And it is".
14. Heavens or Earth? Which was created first? First earth and then heaven [2:29], heaven and after that earth [79:27-30].
15. Calling together or ripping apart? In the process of creation heaven and earth were first apart and are called to come together [41:11], while 21:30 states that they were originally one piece and then ripped apart.
16. What was man created from? A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]
17. Worshiping the Same or a Different God? Muhammad is commanded to speak to the disbelievers: ... nor do you worship what I worship [109:3]. However, other verses in the Qur'an state clearly that those disbelieving his message are in fact worshiping the same God, Allah.
18. Where is Allah and his throne? Allah is nearer than the jugular vein [50:16], but he is also on the throne [57:4] which is upon the water [11:7], and at the same time so far away, that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach him [32:5, 70:4].
19. The origin of calamity? Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?
20. A Contradiction Regarding Muhammad's Fatherhood
21. Does Allah Act Alone Or Does He Have Partners That Assist Him?
22. Is Allah the Only Judge or Not?
23. Are all obedient and prostrating to Allah? That is the claim in 16:49 and 30:26, but dozens of verses speak of the proud disobedience of Satan [7:11, 15:28-31, 17:61, 20:116, 38:71-74, 18:50] as well of many different human beings who reject His commands and His revelations.

please click at the beginning of each line to follow the link to an in-depth discussion of each contradiction...I have only included 23 of the 125 internal contradictions.

The Quran also has 16 scientific contradictions, 12 historical contradictions and many others.

I got these from a quick google where I found this page ---->Contradictions / Difficulties in the Qur'an

If anyone is curious as to how the 101 alleged contradictions if the Bible are explained by Christian Scholars then please go here -----> Debate Topics: Apologetic

Both pages are a dry read if you arent interested in this kind of thing...but its a good source of information for those who really like to dig deeper into the differences between differing faiths.

Sylviane88

Simply ... Most of the contradictions which appeared in ties ... are not only wrong .. But also silly and exciting for laughter !!!

On the contrary, the example of the contradictions which I've already mentionned to you, is very clear and really undeniable!

In your case, I opened the first links and the articles were very funny (But full of fictitious and deceitful) ... this was only the begining ! how about the rest ?!!!

therefore, forgive me, I cannot waste my time reading all the other ridiculous "contradictions"!!! because from the title, I knew what funny ideas are in the article !!!

However, I let this site respond to these absurdities:

QURAN & CONTRADICTION LIES

__________________

valley

Why did I know this was coming.

Sylviane...lol...we are not so different in our enthusiasm for our beliefs, are we? I hope that like me, you debate these things because you care for my soul and nothing else.

Please accept my apologies if I have been rude towards your beliefs. It is not personal towards you...but towards Islam in general and what it teaches. I understand that I will probably not change your mind in just a few threads here in a public forum. But maybe some day, after many arguments with each other, we can meet each other halfway and look for some common ground principles that we can agree on. Til then, you'll just have to be patient with me and I will try to do the same for you. The things you post are just as absurd to me as mine are to you. Lets keep that in mind when we talk to each other and maybe we will start hearing what the other has to say from now on.

Sylviane88

For you, you are right because you were born Christian. Therefore you can not easily accept that the Bible contains mistakes or your religion is not the religion accepted by God, I'll understand it, it's too difficult !

But it is not the same thing for me, I was born Atheist ... my parents were too.

But I was not convinced by the Atheism, there were many things in the world say explicitly that they are created by a skilful creator and designer .. and have not established themselves.

For example, I noticed how strange integration between the male and female (and their vital functions) in the living organisms! how did this integration begin .. and how did it create itself ?!!... later, I knew that there is certainly a creator of this universe. so I decided to do extensive research on religions.

I noticed that Islam is the only religion exposed to a global hateful attack .. via the internet, TV channels, World Press, even the Cinema and theatre! Islam has become a nightmare for the world!, a religion of terrorism, murder and the restriction of freedom and so on .. ! I really found it illogical and leads to suspicion and mistrust.

I saw what was said in the anti-Islamic sites ... I interpreted the responses of Islamic sites. but my research were not only on the Internet!. I lived in Algeria for several years. I studied the Arabic language (which helped me a lot in my studies) and I have made comparisons between what was said by the anti-Islamic propaganda, and the reality of Islam in an Islamic country as algeria . I noticed a big difference. and I also tried to explore the muslims' answers to these propaganda.

my brother. I found that Islam is the only religion accepted by a neutral mentality. The only religion that does not contain ambiguous and confusing. When I chose Islam, my choice was the result of fully conviction.

valley

Just to correct this assumption...I was not born Christian. I did not accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior until I was in my late 20's. Before that time, I believed the Bible was a book of legends. It was only after serious study that I was convinced of its truthfulness and then was led to repentance and faith...all of this after taking psychology and sociology courses in college and thinking that I knew the psychological reasons why people turn to religion. I was wrong...people turn to Christ because they cant deny that the gospel is true. It has nothing to do with fearing death, needing an emotional crutch (there are plenty of those to choose from in life) or having blind faith.

Christianity even more so. Please visit the persecution.org website to see how widespread the problem is ------->Suffering & Persecution of Christians & the Persecuted Church - persecution.org

lovinglife45

Christianity even more so. Please visit the persecution.org website to see how widespread the problem is ------->Suffering & Persecution of Christians & the Persecuted Church - persecution.org[/quote]




this is all recent too... Christians have been persecuted for centuries....... not only in foreign countries but in america as well... (maybe not to a horrible extreme in america... but verbal is enough for me...

__________________
Life Is Fire!

Someone in my dictionary's up to no good

lovinglife45

I have a question..... why does islam have such a problem with christians? I never hear about christians going to muslim temples and bombing them , giving them poison or them being tortured.... so i ask why is the islamic religion so appealing? Is it just not understood so people take it to the next level of hate? how come christianity isnt lilke that then?

__________________
Life Is Fire!

Someone in my dictionary's up to no good

Sylviane88

Ok ... I believe you !
did you know that believing in the Bible is a part of Islam ... not today's bible! ... the believed bible in Islam is only the bible sent to Jesus.
In Islam: who deny the bible (sent to jesus) cannot be muslim.

However,
Does the today's Bible cannot be denied as you say?

Forgive me .. I hope you do not think I abuse the Bible ... I greatly respect the views of others and I think you know that. but Today's bible says clearly:

God has a son !!!.
God (the all-powerful) needs the theatrical of sacrifice, crucifixion and humiliation by Jews.
God is a lamb or a sheep !!! (even if it is symbolic). (John 17: 14) and (Revelations 5:6)
God is drunken (Psalm 78:65).
God sleeps !!!
God is racist ! (Deuteronomy 23: 19)
God is ignorant and weak !! (Corinthians 1:25)
God is just like a rock !!! (Samuel 1:2)
God ordered Ezekiel to eat shit !!! (Ezekiel 4: 12)
God reprimands and threatens himself !!! (Jeremiah 10: 19)
God is Goddamn !!! (Galatians 3: 13)
and so on ...




Moreover ... the relationship between Jesus and The father is still confusing according to the today's bible.
The holy book contains numerical errors !!!


so how can you say that today's bible cannot be denied?!!!

Forgive me again !!!

__________________

Sylviane88

Hi bro, do you want to hear some?

Read the history of Arab and Islamic peoples from 1800 until 1970.

however. who told you that muslims hate christians? that's false.

__________________