Minor Axis

MSNBC Link.

The next time you want to judge a third world dictatorship who locks people up forever, consider the U.S. Government position of locking people up indefinitely without *any* legal representation. If it was your son and daughter stuck in some hell hole, say a Turkish Prison, there was a time when we could hold our heads high with moral authority and say, "That's wrong asshole!" We can still say it but not with any authority as long as the current Administration is in charge and who believes that torture is the way to go and who needs their day in court anyway?

Fortunately the Supreme Court has called the Bush Administration on this ILL ADVISED policy. You might argue well, this is war, and these are prisoners of war. But I'll counter this is not a typical war, and it's not a war against one country, it's the war on terror and there are people being detained who have been snatched from all around the world, and not just on the battle field.

The point is this. Any time an authority has the ability to lock up an individual, and if it's your government, you have to look at the possibility of abuse, and you must consider is there responsible oversight? I grew up on the concept of habeas corpus where you can not be locked up and toss the key without real representation. It's one of the foundations of liberty. The actions at Gitmo should give you serious pause to think about a situation when your government feels security trumps your liberty.

BTW, do you realize that 5 US Military Prosecutors have quit their positions over the policies of handling prisoners at Gitmo? Basically the problem is they were trained to believe in a fair and responsible legal system. I'm not saying those prisoners are good people. I'm saying I too believe in a standard of legal representation that this country should stand for.

CNN Link.

CCRAT Link.

Harpers Magazine.

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Peter Parka

Was seeing about that on the news today, I find it amazing the hypocrisy of people who are ok with this yet will loudly denounce other countries systems which are no worse.

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Tim

I wonder if this will change anything...

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skyblue

show me the battlefield

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Sylar

I wouldnt waste time locking them up. head down *blam* you wont kill our children again...

Abu hamza in uk has incited hatred towards the west, he hates the west, yet we have to be sympathetic to his needs!

fuck that, kill the twat.

some people have no rights..... full stop

Peter Parka

Is that why we've imprisoned him then?

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Minor Axis

So when the black bag crew shows up at your house late one night, thems the breaks. Hey, you sound kinda like an anarchist.

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Sylar

Peter, yes thats what he was jailed for, inciting hatred and terror, personally I`d shoot him and deport his body the asshole.

Minor, why would a black bag crew show up at my house? Im not a west hating muslim. I follow the guidelines and laws of the country I live in.

Peter Parka

Well I wouldn't worry, the USA want us to deport him there to face further charges.

So was that Brazillian guy who made the mistake of getting on the tube in London.

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Sylar

Mistakes are made sometimes, the US bombed british soldiers by accident.. these things happen..

In general, we all need to stop giving these extremist assholes privelages. suspected of terrorist activity in the uk, and you get detained for 42 days, fuck that, kick em out... it will work in the long run...

Peter Parka

There's a big difference between being a suspect and being convicted of the crime. Oh, and I'd use a lot stronger word to describe the shooting dead of an innocent man by the police in front of loads of people including kids, than a mistake.

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Sylar

I wouldnt, it was a terrible mistake end of. going on and on about it makes it worse. its happened. lets look at the bigger picture here, the accidental death of one man in a terrorist panicked society is nothing compared to the thousands that lose thier lives to evil west hating islamic morons.

Peter Parka

True, I just for the life of me dont understand how shooting dead innocent people helps to stop terrorists. Maybe people would go on about it less if the Police didn't protect their officers involved. How they were cleared of all blame is beyond me!

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Sylar

Happens all the time *sigh*

Minor Axis

My point is when you are caviler about civil liberties, who gets them and how they are enforced, who's to say your not the next one on the list of detainees? Mostly I'm arguing a principle here.

You saying that based on "suspicion" people should be ejected from the country? What level of suspicion? What about due process and your right to a trial? So when you neighbor gets pissed off at you for whatever reason, they can call the police, tell them that you've been attending secret subversive meetings, and it's so long Sylar based on a suspicion?

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