Prayer. Why is God selective? - Page 3

05-29-2007, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memento_mori

i can see a difference between theists and atheists too, atheists actually have to work harder than saying "God did it." and i find atheists (or at least passionate agnostics) more interesting to talk to.

so everything is part of god's plan. we don't know god's plan though, and that's why we have to hope that the bad things that are part of his plan are just for the best. there is no plan vs we're too stupid to know the plan. either way, we don't know. your argument seems to be that we might as well assume we're too stupid to know the plan, because it makes you feel better.

but if either way we don't know, and either way we're going to have to deal with these problems ourselves, why not put more faith in ourselves? how about putting more effort into society? we're the ones that have to live through this shit.

Because society is shit, is unreliable and unpredictable. We are not stupid and God is not, either. Whoever thinks they know everyone is the ones who are lost. By all means feel strong about what you believe, but don't be arrogant in the process and respect others' opinions who ain't the same as yours please.

I feel kinda sick about arguing. I don't know. This should be a thread that everyone brings their opinions in rather than convicing each other what they believe is wrong or stupid. It should be a neutral thing. And if in the process someone changed their minds, then good on them. Well I don't see that happening so far.

memento_mori · 05-29-2007, 10:14 AM

i see this as a section to have clashing opinions. thus the debate and philosophy section.

society is what we make it. and i think if we try real hard, we might actually be able to answer our own prayers instead of having god maybe help us out, but probably not.

All Else Failed · 05-29-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

Arrrrrgggg I can so see the difference between Christians and non-christians. Esp the real christians who have faith and give their lives to God. They are strong. They don't tear down people and they don't care what they think cuz they have been through it all to know that God is there and this is the truth.

Um, you're tearing no-believers down right now, sooooooooooooooo

All Else Failed · 05-29-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntruderLS1

Hello kettle. My name is Pot.

You are black.

You are the MASTER of dodging points.

You know what brother... I don't even know what to say to this. I've honestly done my best to be civil to you. I've tried to be rational, and explain our POV. I've ignored your little jabs. I don't point out to the world when you're beat (I think I had one moment of weakness). I don't pound you into the dirt when you're 100% on the wrong logic train. I admit freely that you do have evidence to back some of your theories. ... I know you don't know me well, but if you had come to this site a year or two ago, you would have had a discussion on your hands that would have gone out of control within seconds of your undeniable facts and logic hitting the table.

You are hostile to believers, weather you are willing to admit it or not. If you would like, I will build you a small montage of quotes that you have put together in the past 30 days to "WTF PROVE BEYOND DISCUSSION" my point. If memory serves, (and I'll find it if you want) the first post you guys came in with, you specifically asked where all the "religious zealots" were to get all pissy with whatever it was you were talking about.

You are a young guy, with a million pounds of potential behind you. You're smart, you're moderately experienced in life, you're getting an education, etc.... But you have this terrible habit of feeling that you are infallible, and everything you believe, you believe because it was prooven. What you don't understand is that if life were as simple as you think it is, EVERYBODY would be on the same sheet of music all the time.

You ignore the fact that 78% of the world believes differently than you do, and write it off to us all being idiots. Do you know what the rest of the world calls 12% of believers that stand their ground, and scream into the wind that they are right, and everybody else is WTFPWND w/ their logic? ...

Your POV is not the end of the line simply because you found somebody to agree with you. Admit it or not, there is evidence to support our faith that evolution cannot explain. Sit on your high horse or not, but you are in the habit of beating the drum of somebody else's argument, and changing the subject when you don't have the background to continue.

American history major.... ??? Lie, new, or approached with a pre-conceived notion. Those are the only three options I see as viable.

I apologize if the cross over my friends grave is a direct violation of your constitutional rights to a secular government. I'm sorry if you feel that the foundation of this nation was honestly in your view of the world, and EVERYBODY else was simply mistaken because we're too stupid to read the fine print. I'm sorry if a religion that you DON'T believe in says your going to hell, and that's tough to stomach. What do you want us to say? Do you want an apology from the world? Maybe a chocolate chip cookie to make you feel better?

If it were all smoke and mirrors to you, you wouldn't care to "save" anybody else. You would live your life, and get as much as you can in the small amount of years you have open to you. It should be a bonus to you that there are believers in the world. Easy people to take advantage of, right?

**Deleted** I can get stupid mean sometimes.

I wish you the best in life. I'll wonder on occasion what your final thoughts will be, but in the end, I am comfortable knowing that you're happy with your choice.

Peace out hommie. I'm done talking to you. Say what you want. I won't argue with you any more.

--Scott

Dude, half of your posts toward me are either you laughing at my points or the overuse of mocking emoticons, at least I try to debate with you. I don't see how you cannot see how you're just ignoring what I say and just "Oh man I LOL keep talking LOL!1!1" because thats what you do.

I don't recall calling anyone a religious zealot. I'm go through my posts and check, but I don't think I have.

I don't see how I'm acting like I'm infallible. You guys are the ones saying "Omg we have the truth and god is in our hearts I hope you see the light!" Yes, I do believe in what has been proven, that is called Accepting reality.

The reason why the majority of the world believes in a deity(s) can be explained with simple psychological analysis. It's called group think and tradition to name a few. I don't think people who believe in god are idiots, they are simply conditioned by their environment to believe. It's simple stuff really.

I also find it funny that you accuse me of using jabs when you're using several jabs through this entire post.

You think I'm lieing about my major?

Um, I don't think a cross over your dead buddy is a violation of my rights stop making rash assumptions. I don't find the concept of hell tough to stomach because I simply don't believe in it. You're pretty good at attacking things you think are my personal beliefs when they're really not. And you continue to mock and act high and mighty with more personal attacks at the end of this paragraph.

How am I taking advantage of believers?

I'm done talking to you also, since you clearly either don't see that you're extremely rude in conversation and have an ego the size of a small planet.

All Else Failed · 05-29-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

Because society is shit, is unreliable and unpredictable. We are not stupid and God is not, either. Whoever thinks they know everyone is the ones who are lost. By all means feel strong about what you believe, but don't be arrogant in the process and respect others' opinions who ain't the same as yours please.

I feel kinda sick about arguing. I don't know. This should be a thread that everyone brings their opinions in rather than convicing each other what they believe is wrong or stupid. It should be a neutral thing. And if in the process someone changed their minds, then good on them. Well I don't see that happening so far.

You're calling memento arrogant yet in the other post you claimed to be "strong" just because you are a Christian.

05-29-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memento_mori

i see this as a section to have clashing opinions. thus the debate and philosophy section.

society is what we make it. and i think if we try real hard, we might actually be able to answer our own prayers instead of having god maybe help us out, but probably not.

Society is what we make of it to SOME EXTENT. Just like there is no absolute free will. At the end of the day, we are not God.

05-29-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

You're calling memento arrogant yet in the other post you claimed to be "strong" just because you are a Christian.

I am not calling anyone arrogant, Iam just suggesting it's not a good attitude since some people have been using personal attacks against believers. I didn't say Christian are the ONLY strong people. Stopping twisting my word.

All Else Failed · 05-29-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

I am not calling anyone arrogant, Iam just suggesting it's not a good attitude since some people have been using personal attacks against believers. I didn't say Christian are the ONLY strong people. Stopping twisting my word.

Arrrrrgggg I can so see the difference between Christians and non-christians. Esp the real christians who have faith and give their lives to God. They are strong. They don't tear down people and they don't care what they think cuz they have been through it all to know that God is there and this is the truth.

So, what is the difference between Christians and non-believers?

05-29-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

Arrrrrgggg I can so see the difference between Christians and non-christians. Esp the real christians who have faith and give their lives to God. They are strong. They don't tear down people and they don't care what they think cuz they have been through it all to know that God is there and this is the truth.

So, what is the difference between Christians and non-believers?

The way of life is different and the mind set is different. You can tell from this forum how different their values and attitudes are. I mean believers are very strong together, I can feel that there is like a bond between believers. No matter where they are, who they are and what they do, they share something special in common. It's like a family.

dt3 · 05-29-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

The way of life is different and the mind set is different. You can tell from this forum how different their values and attitudes are. I mean believers are very strong together, I can feel that there is like a bond between believers. No matter where they are, who they are and what they do, they share something special in common. It's like a family.

Please, enlighten me as to what values I'm lacking. Since you know me so well and all. Please, go ahead and judge. I'm sure that's exactly what Jesus would've wanted.

05-29-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt3

Please, enlighten me as to what values I'm lacking. Since you know me so well and all. Please, go ahead and judge. I'm sure that's exactly what Jesus would've wanted.

I am not judging anyone here and plz don't take what I say personally. Jesus wants the best of us and real Christians do forgive people because many have been prosecuted before them. We are glad cuz the great is the reward in heaven. I am not saying i forgive people for the reward in heaven I m just saying Jesus knows what we do, even in the dark. It's ok if you don't believe in it or anything. I don't mind discussing something constructive or answering your questions relating to Christianity but I have a feeling that at the end, people forget the logic and truth and will just turn into pure stubbornness.

dt3 · 05-29-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

I am not judging anyone here and plz don't take what I say personally. Jesus wants the best of us and real Christians do forgive people because many have been prosecuted before them. We are glad cuz the great is the reward in heaven. I am not saying i forgive people for the reward in heaven I m just saying Jesus knows what we do, even in the dark. It's ok if you don't believe in it or anything. I don't mind discussing something constructive or answering your questions relating to Christianity but I have a feeling that at the end, people forget the logic and truth and will just turn into pure stubbornness.

How am I supposed to not take it personally (and how is it not judgmental)when you insult the values of non-believers (which is a category I definitely fit into)? I'm proud of my values.

This is exactly the "Holier Than Thou" mentality that I hate about religion.

If you want to discuss something constructive, then tell me why you think what you believe is better than what I believe? Then explain to me how you thinking your beliefs are better is staying true to the whole "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself" part of the Bible.

All Else Failed · 05-30-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

The way of life is different and the mind set is different. You can tell from this forum how different their values and attitudes are. I mean believers are very strong together, I can feel that there is like a bond between believers. No matter where they are, who they are and what they do, they share something special in common. It's like a family.

Thousands of years of religious and sectarian violence disagrees with you.

I'm a part of a family called "the human race". Perhaps you should look beyond religion.

Are Christian values better than other people's?

dt3 · 05-30-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

Thousands of years of religious and sectarian violence disagrees with you.

I'm a part of a family called "the human race". Perhaps you should look beyond religion.

Are Christian values better than other people's?

That's what I've heard...

memento_mori · 05-30-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

Society is what we make of it to SOME EXTENT. Just like there is no absolute free will. At the end of the day, we are not God.

no, we are society. we can't control what others do, but we can control what we do. and that's 1/6,000,000,000 of the way there. it's a long road and it requires a little faith, but it's our best shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

The way of life is different and the mind set is different. You can tell from this forum how different their values and attitudes are. I mean believers are very strong together, I can feel that there is like a bond between believers. No matter where they are, who they are and what they do, they share something special in common. It's like a family.

as you can see, atheists are like a family too. we unite in our distaste for people who say stupid things. we have ideas in common. it's like uniting with someone who's also a fan of your favorite sports team. or being friends with someone who goes to yoga with you.
christians are not anymore united than people who think blake should win american idol. and i'm not even getting into all the separations the christian church has had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

Because society is shit, is unreliable and unpredictable.

god's plan is shit, is unreliable and unpredictable. seriously, what are you relying on it for other than peace of mind? it's not going to change your mother getting cancer, or your friend being raped, or your odds of winning the lottery. can you predict god's plan? people seem to assume it's just for the best. if something horrible happens, you forgive god because it's part of his plan.
if people had half that forgiveness, or that relentless optimism, or the dedication to society, i think the world would be a better place. b/c then we'd be 2/6,000,000,000 of the way to changing the world.

it's ok, magic. i do believe in forgiveness in the name of progress, and i still love ya sweetcheeks.

05-29-2007, 10:14 AM	#32
memento_mori Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,662 Tokenz: 1,777	Re: Prayer. Why is God selective? i see this as a section to have clashing opinions. thus the debate and philosophy section. society is what we make it. and i think if we try real hard, we might actually be able to answer our own prayers instead of having god maybe help us out, but probably not. __________________ Genius and Insanity are only separated by varying degrees of success.

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