If God is the most powerful being... - Page 3

05-27-2007, 01:49 AM

I guess what you guys mean is like this analogy:
God is the builder of a maze and we are the human beings in it. For us we tend to have free will of choosing which pathway to go and how we go about it. However, because of the restrictions of being in a maze, we have only two choices really, to get to the exist or stay in the maze. Therefore, we don't actually have a free will cuz God has already made the maze a certain way. Am I getting it right or at least closer?

memento_mori · 05-27-2007, 09:26 AM

if gods making us run a maze, then he's not all benevolent. if god cant help but make us run a maze, then he's not all powerful.

05-27-2007, 10:08 AM

it's an analogy. God's maze is not that simple.

memento_mori · 05-27-2007, 10:34 AM

it is an analogy, it's an analogy describing how difficult and confusing our lives are, the lives that god made. like a maze.

and if god could know the consequences of all his creations, if he could have made our lives simpler, and he didn't, then he's not all knowing.

if god decided to make our lives this complicated because its his will, then he's not all benevolent.

if its not within his power to get us out of this maze, then hes not all powerful. if its up to us to get ourselves out of this maze, on our own free will, and god cant help people who freely choose not to follow his will, then he cant do everything. because he cant help the people who freely choose to not follow his will.

TheOriginalJames · 05-27-2007, 02:51 PM

Question #2: If God is all powerful and the Devil is nothing but evil. Why does God just not be rid of Satan and disallow temptation to sinning?

All Else Failed · 05-27-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOriginalJames

Question #2: If God is all powerful and the Devil is nothing but evil. Why does God just not be rid of Satan and disallow temptation to sinning?

He needs evil to stay in business.

05-27-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memento_mori

it is an analogy, it's an analogy describing how difficult and confusing our lives are, the lives that god made. like a maze.

and if god could know the consequences of all his creations, if he could have made our lives simpler, and he didn't, then he's not all knowing.

if god decided to make our lives this complicated because its his will, then he's not all benevolent.

if its not within his power to get us out of this maze, then hes not all powerful. if its up to us to get ourselves out of this maze, on our own free will, and god cant help people who freely choose not to follow his will, then he cant do everything. because he cant help the people who freely choose to not follow his will.

He did make our lives very simply before but Eve chose to rebel and now we are suffering from our own consequences. God is not controlling and because he's all powerful, even if we choose not to follow him, I am sure he's more than fine. But he loves us and his son died us so we could have a relationship with him. We made this maze this way and God says, learn your lesson in the maze but I will be with you and give you strength to get out of here in the end. When you don't have God, it's when you are alone in the maze.

05-27-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOriginalJames

Question #2: If God is all powerful and the Devil is nothing but evil. Why does God just not be rid of Satan and disallow temptation to sinning?

God will deal with Satan in the end, right now God allows it so that we can learn to choose. If we can't deal with temptation now, we will just repeat history and become one of the satans(fallen angel).

memento_mori · 05-27-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

He did make our lives very simply before but Eve chose to rebel and now we are suffering from our own consequences. God is not controlling and because he's all powerful, even if we choose not to follow him, I am sure he's more than fine. But he loves us and his son died us so we could have a relationship with him. We made this maze this way and God says, learn your lesson in the maze but I will be with you and give you strength to get out of here in the end. When you don't have God, it's when you are alone in the maze.

and we're suffering the consequences of adam and eve's mistake, because god sent us out of eden. not our own consequences, their consequences. for people who believe in adam and eve anyway. does that sound like a kind being?

05-27-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memento_mori

and we're suffering the consequences of adam and eve's mistake, because god sent us out of eden. not our own consequences, their consequences. for people who believe in adam and eve anyway. does that sound like a kind being?

Well, that's not an one off mistake. Since then, humans made losa huge mistakes and so we are suffering from our day to day sins and mistakes, not just for human beings as a whole but also for what we do each day, or the decisions we make each day for ourselves.

All Else Failed · 05-27-2007, 11:21 PM

Magic, there is one simple thing you must understand: God knowing how you are going to act + him already knowing where you are going to go after you die = Your decisions in life are meaningless since they are already known to him.

Also, Adam and Eve are an interesting thing. WHY exactly would god punish all of humanity for two people's mistake? Thats sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

05-28-2007, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

Magic, there is one simple thing you must understand: God knowing how you are going to act + him already knowing where you are going to go after you die = Your decisions in life are meaningless since they are already known to him.

Also, Adam and Eve are an interesting thing. WHY exactly would god punish all of humanity for two people's mistake? Thats sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

All else failed, it seems that way if you look at it as a whole thing but as the time being, we still made those choices, God just knows it in advance that's all. God is not punishing us for Adam and Eve's fault. We are paying off our own mistakes and also Adam and Eve are not the only people who committed sins if you look at the whole human history.

Reaver · 05-28-2007, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic P

All else failed, it seems that way if you look at it as a whole thing but as the time being, we still made those choices, God just knows it in advance that's all.

You really don't understand this base concept, do you? The fact that God is infallible + God knowing what you will do before you do it = you cannot make a choice other than what he has seen. I really fail to see why you believe the way you do... God knows about your choices in advance, but you still make up your own mind??? If that's true then God cannot be all-knowing, since you obviously made a choice he didn't know you were going to make. Your argument honestly does not make sense in a logical format. You're arguing for both at the same time, but it simply cannot work that way.

IntruderLS1 · 05-28-2007, 05:45 AM

Looks familiar....

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntruderLS1

Parents often know what their kids are going to do before the kid does it, because the parent knows the child. How much more so would God know us? Would you argue that a child had no freewill in a certain situation because the parent knew the outcome?

Foreknowledge and free will do not cancel out to zero. Likewise, the creator of an item is not responsible for the user of said item. Your comparison is similar to saying Diesel is responsible for the thousands of deaths that automobiles have caused over the years, and whoever you want to give credit to for the creation of the gun is responsible for the wars and murders over the years.

Reaver · 05-28-2007, 06:02 AM

I knew this topic had to have been discussed before, but I really didn't want to look it up.

05-27-2007, 01:49 AM	#31
Magic P Guest Posts: n/a Tokenz: 0 [Check]	Re: If God is the most powerful being... I guess what you guys mean is like this analogy: God is the builder of a maze and we are the human beings in it. For us we tend to have free will of choosing which pathway to go and how we go about it. However, because of the restrictions of being in a maze, we have only two choices really, to get to the exist or stay in the maze. Therefore, we don't actually have a free will cuz God has already made the maze a certain way. Am I getting it right or at least closer?

05-27-2007, 09:26 AM	#32
memento_mori Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,662 Tokenz: 1,777	Re: If God is the most powerful being... if gods making us run a maze, then he's not all benevolent. if god cant help but make us run a maze, then he's not all powerful. __________________ Genius and Insanity are only separated by varying degrees of success.

05-27-2007, 10:08 AM	#33
Magic P Guest Posts: n/a Tokenz: 0 [Check]	Re: If God is the most powerful being... it's an analogy. God's maze is not that simple.

05-27-2007, 10:34 AM	#34
memento_mori Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,662 Tokenz: 1,777	Re: If God is the most powerful being... it is an analogy, it's an analogy describing how difficult and confusing our lives are, the lives that god made. like a maze. and if god could know the consequences of all his creations, if he could have made our lives simpler, and he didn't, then he's not all knowing. if god decided to make our lives this complicated because its his will, then he's not all benevolent. if its not within his power to get us out of this maze, then hes not all powerful. if its up to us to get ourselves out of this maze, on our own free will, and god cant help people who freely choose not to follow his will, then he cant do everything. because he cant help the people who freely choose to not follow his will. __________________ Genius and Insanity are only separated by varying degrees of success.

05-27-2007, 02:51 PM	#35
TheOriginalJames Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 24,729	Re: If God is the most powerful being... Question #2: If God is all powerful and the Devil is nothing but evil. Why does God just not be rid of Satan and disallow temptation to sinning?

05-27-2007, 11:21 PM	#41
All Else Failed Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,562 Tokenz: 8,402	Re: If God is the most powerful being... Magic, there is one simple thing you must understand: God knowing how you are going to act + him already knowing where you are going to go after you die = Your decisions in life are meaningless since they are already known to him. Also, Adam and Eve are an interesting thing. WHY exactly would god punish all of humanity for two people's mistake? Thats sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

05-28-2007, 06:02 AM	#45
Reaver Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Right behind you Posts: 1,173 Tokenz: 501	Re: If God is the most powerful being... I knew this topic had to have been discussed before, but I really didn't want to look it up. __________________ <)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))# "Yeah, that dood looks like he will eat the cookies, fuck yer mom, break the milk glass and stab yer pops with it" --Boomer Last edited by Reaver; 05-28-2007 at 06:09 AM.

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