An interesting Verse from the Bible. - Page 2

Kat · 05-23-2007, 11:29 AM

to Dt3 and A.E.F. once again what i said was based off of what i was taught. sorry but will keep out of things like this now.

GraceAbounds · 05-23-2007, 11:33 AM

I did not say that Psalms should not be taken seriously. But Psalms needs to be read in context, just as the whole Bible should be. If one does not read the Bible in this manner they make it say things it was never meant to say. The Who, What, Where, When, and Why's need to be answered in context.

Quote:

The Christian faith is based solely on the bible and the bible only. There is NO other word of God that is used. That means that everything, and I mean everything that God wanted you to KNOW is in the bible.

I agree.

Quote:

So where does it say that you shouldn't take this section literally?

When I say literally, what I am referring to is it being read out of context.

memento_mori · 05-23-2007, 01:02 PM

i'm still not seeing actual verses that say god doesn't control what we do.

All Else Failed · 05-23-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAbounds

Great post! And exactly correct.

And btw there are churches out there today that DO read the Bible in context. It just takes some effort in finding one.

Prophets are people that had direct connections with god. God LITERALLY talked to them, and they wrote down/preached what he said to them. How CAN'T you take Psalms not literally then? Was god just pulling the prophet's legs?

Btw, I would like to know why you think god is peaceful when he pretty much committed mass genocide on humanity in the OT when he supposedly flooded the earth.

Oh dear, this is my 666th post. HAIL SATAN.

All Else Failed · 05-23-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer

Satan can't choose when to end your life. That is up to God and God only. Satan may influence and torment, but he cannot kill you.

No I do not think that the abortions were pre-planned. I think that is a major exageration. IF there is a divine entity, I'm sure it has a mighty fine idea as to what you are going to do, but why would God test our faith if our fate was already pre-determined?

Its in plain English, he has predated WHEN and HOW you will die. This includes abortions, rapes, murders, suicides and so on.

The boldened part is important. It's because either A) God is a twisted psychopath B) Its just another contradictory part of the bible, and there are hundreds of them or C) The bible isn't actually the word of god, but just a collection of myths, legends, and local lore written down to be a basic moral code on how society should be.

420SkeetSkeet420 · 05-23-2007, 05:29 PM

I dont know about beliving in the bible or any religous theries. This is just my opinion!I dont think that everyone is "PUT" hear bye any religous god.We are just an orginism multiplied beyond belife!!!!

memento_mori · 05-23-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

This passage comes from the extremely popular Christian book, that has sold well over 20 million copies, The purpose driven life:

Because god made you for a reason,
he also decided when you would be
born and how long you would live.
He planned the days of your life in
advance, choosing the exact time of
your birth and death. The bible says:
"You saw me before I was born
and scheduled each day of my life before
I began to breath. Everyday was recorded in your book! [Psalm 139:16]

So, since God has scheduled EXACTLY when you will die.....does that mean he has scheduled all of the abortions that have ever taken place?

this is strictly biblical interpretation. if the bible or this passage means anything to you, post your interpretation and possibly where in the bible gives you reason to believe that

icecuban · 05-23-2007, 08:34 PM

great question, yeah, its all him, give him the credit! He turns the rotten apple into food for small small creatures! i think that certain things, good and bad, that have happened, had to happen in order to get to where we need to be. truely, nothing seriously "bad" happens, cause in one way, shape, or form, through the physics and happenings of nature and god, something good will result from the cause and effect, in turn leading somewhere else (if he does have it planned out, then im sure thats how it would work then). i think it is all needed, the good and bad, up till this point, to give us something to get over, give us something that will require a lot of heart to get rid of. and in doing so, strengthening us for a final product. from ape, to man, to ....

EmperorKupcake · 05-24-2007, 10:37 PM

Well, whenever there was something evil that mankind has encountered, mankind has learned how to overcome that obstacle. Its sort of like a parent teaching their child to solve their own problems, as opposed to giving the child the solution. If God gave us a utopian society where everything was fine and dandy, we would not be nearly as successful as we are now.

I know, some of you will argue that mankind as a whole is going downhill currently, but when you look at the past 10 centuries, we've went from a Feudal Society where the majority of the population is in serfdom (essentially slavery) or in the military. Then more unified oppression as monarchs, where the working class conditions improved slightly. Then bam, Salutory Neglect hits the American Colonies. For the first time in the millenium, mankind has experienced relative freedom. However, Britain ended Salutory Neglect and that angered the colonies, so they rebelled and all that fun stuff.

So in conclusion, God put these obstacles in existance so that we can fight to overcome them, and improve our society as a whole.

All Else Failed · 05-24-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorKupcake

Well, whenever there was something evil that mankind has encountered, mankind has learned how to overcome that obstacle. Its sort of like a parent teaching their child to solve their own problems, as opposed to giving the child the solution. If God gave us a utopian society where everything was fine and dandy, we would not be nearly as successful as we are now.

I know, some of you will argue that mankind as a whole is going downhill currently, but when you look at the past 10 centuries, we've went from a Feudal Society where the majority of the population is in serfdom (essentially slavery) or in the military. Then more unified oppression as monarchs, where the working class conditions improved slightly. Then bam, Salutory Neglect hits the American Colonies. For the first time in the millenium, mankind has experienced relative freedom. However, Britain ended Salutory Neglect and that angered the colonies, so they rebelled and all that fun stuff.

So in conclusion, God put these obstacles in existance so that we can fight to overcome them, and improve our society as a whole.

Can he do this by not killing people? It seems that he has a very odd and painful way of teaching us. Plus, it's pretty twisted to use humans as a means to an end.

I don't see how he can be a compassionate god by letting 9/11 happen either for example, oh wait he PLANNED that too going by this bible verse. He's one blood thirsty guy. The same goes for the holocaust.

EmperorKupcake · 05-24-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

Can he do this by not killing people? It seems that he has a very odd and painful way of teaching us. Plus, it's pretty twisted to use humans as a means to an end.

I don't see how he can be a compassionate god by letting 9/11 happen either for example, oh wait he PLANNED that too going by this bible verse. He's one blood thirsty guy. The same goes for the holocaust.

People die. It happens. I mean, it seems sad to us, as we see things much more limited than God does. When you think about it, death, even on a massive scale, is necessary for improvement. If we didn't have the holocaust, we wouldn't have the terrible impression that the holocaust left on society, and so that would leave room for an even worse genocide in the "western" countries.

These massive tragedies are not God's evil plot, but more painful lessons. Its essentially letting a child learn the consequences for playing with scissors, or something like that. The kid gets a cut, but he'll live.
Same thing goes for society. We get damaged, but not destroyed.

All Else Failed · 05-25-2007, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorKupcake

People die. It happens. I mean, it seems sad to us, as we see things much more limited than God does. When you think about it, death, even on a massive scale, is necessary for improvement. If we didn't have the holocaust, we wouldn't have the terrible impression that the holocaust left on society, and so that would leave room for an even worse genocide in the "western" countries.

These massive tragedies are not God's evil plot, but more painful lessons. Its essentially letting a child learn the consequences for playing with scissors, or something like that. The kid gets a cut, but he'll live.
Same thing goes for society. We get damaged, but not destroyed.

So you're saying every genocide, every rape, murder and such is fine because god wills it? The fact that god USES people as a means to an end is reprehensible. He doesn't mind mass murders if it pushes his ideas and "plan". Look into the eyes of a holocaust survivor, the pain that they hold, the traumatic experience they had to endure....for god's plan? Are we lab mice?

I'm sorry, but if people have to be butchered in the name of god and his plan I want none of that twisted plot. I hold humanity in too high of a regard to have us be treated as tools to "teach" people things. A loving parent doesn't let one of his kids venture out into traffic to die so that the others learn not to do it. A loving parent tells them from the very beginning what not to do to keep them safe. It seems god doesn't mind letting his kids venture into the road?

Kat · 05-25-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

So you're saying every genocide, every rape, murder and such is fine because god wills it? The fact that god USES people as a means to an end is reprehensible. He doesn't mind mass murders if it pushes his ideas and "plan". Look into the eyes of a holocaust survivor, the pain that they hold, the traumatic experience they had to endure....for god's plan? Are we lab mice?

I'm sorry, but if people have to be butchered in the name of god and his plan I want none of that twisted plot. I hold humanity in too high of a regard to have us be treated as tools to "teach" people things. A loving parent doesn't let one of his kids venture out into traffic to die so that the others learn not to do it. A loving parent tells them from the very beginning what not to do to keep them safe. It seems god doesn't mind letting his kids venture into the road?

in all actuality...god did say from the very begining what NOT to do...but he also gave us free choice. It started with adam and eve...told them not to eat from that one tree...and what did they do? Therefor the results was for them to know pain of labor...pain of birth. He is like a parent in that regard...he can tell us what to do..what is best for us...but it is still up for us to decide. Unfortunatly free choice...sometimes has bad consequences...on the person making the choice and others around them

All Else Failed · 05-25-2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kat

in all actuality...god did say from the very begining what NOT to do...but he also gave us free choice. It started with adam and eve...told them not to eat from that one tree...and what did they do? Therefor the results was for them to know pain of labor...pain of birth. He is like a parent in that regard...he can tell us what to do..what is best for us...but it is still up for us to decide. Unfortunatly free choice...sometimes has bad consequences...on the person making the choice and others around them

You forget that god put the tree there in the first place, and made the serpent that tempted him, which was all his plan in the first place, so really god made them eat the fruit. It was in god's plan for Adam and eve to sin, there's no other way to look at it since he KNEW they would eat the fruit! So really, it didn't matter that he told them not to eat it, since his plan was for them to make original sin.

Also there is no such thing as free will in Christianity when god himself has already made up his mind where you're going to go, which the verse I posted proves in believer's own words.

Kat · 05-25-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Else Failed

You forget that god put the tree there in the first place, and made the serpent that tempted him, which was all his plan in the first place, so really god made them eat the fruit. It was in god's plan for Adam and eve to sin, there's no other way to look at it since he KNEW they would eat the fruit! So really, it didn't matter that he told them not to eat it, since his plan was for them to make original sin.

Also there is no such thing as free will in Christianity when god himself has already made up his mind where you're going to go, which the verse I posted proves in believer's own words.

Yes he put the tree there...but no he did not put the serpent...recall that the serpent was satan there to tempt them.

05-23-2007, 11:29 AM	#16
Kat Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CT Posts: 8,148 Tokenz: 4,073	Re: An interesting Verse from the Bible. to Dt3 and A.E.F. once again what i said was based off of what i was taught. sorry but will keep out of things like this now. __________________ Life is what you make of it....dont waste a moment...it ends too soon

05-23-2007, 01:02 PM	#18
memento_mori Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,662 Tokenz: 1,777	Re: An interesting Verse from the Bible. i'm still not seeing actual verses that say god doesn't control what we do. __________________ Genius and Insanity are only separated by varying degrees of success.

05-23-2007, 05:29 PM	#21
420SkeetSkeet420 Still a newbie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 47 Tokenz: 429	Re: An interesting Verse from the Bible. I dont know about beliving in the bible or any religous theries. This is just my opinion!I dont think that everyone is "PUT" hear bye any religous god.We are just an orginism multiplied beyond belife!!!! __________________ 420SKEETSKEET420

05-23-2007, 08:34 PM	#23
icecuban Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: concord, nh Posts: 447 Tokenz: 21	Re: An interesting Verse from the Bible. great question, yeah, its all him, give him the credit! He turns the rotten apple into food for small small creatures! i think that certain things, good and bad, that have happened, had to happen in order to get to where we need to be. truely, nothing seriously "bad" happens, cause in one way, shape, or form, through the physics and happenings of nature and god, something good will result from the cause and effect, in turn leading somewhere else (if he does have it planned out, then im sure thats how it would work then). i think it is all needed, the good and bad, up till this point, to give us something to get over, give us something that will require a lot of heart to get rid of. and in doing so, strengthening us for a final product. from ape, to man, to ....

05-24-2007, 10:37 PM	#24
EmperorKupcake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 365 Tokenz: 266	Re: An interesting Verse from the Bible. Well, whenever there was something evil that mankind has encountered, mankind has learned how to overcome that obstacle. Its sort of like a parent teaching their child to solve their own problems, as opposed to giving the child the solution. If God gave us a utopian society where everything was fine and dandy, we would not be nearly as successful as we are now. I know, some of you will argue that mankind as a whole is going downhill currently, but when you look at the past 10 centuries, we've went from a Feudal Society where the majority of the population is in serfdom (essentially slavery) or in the military. Then more unified oppression as monarchs, where the working class conditions improved slightly. Then bam, Salutory Neglect hits the American Colonies. For the first time in the millenium, mankind has experienced relative freedom. However, Britain ended Salutory Neglect and that angered the colonies, so they rebelled and all that fun stuff. So in conclusion, God put these obstacles in existance so that we can fight to overcome them, and improve our society as a whole.

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