 | A place to come and get "Off" |
| ||
05-22-2007, 09:44 PM
| #1 |
| Member  Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: concord, nh
Posts: 447
Tokenz: 12   |  christ and war I have a feeling this is going to stir some things up, but I feel we all will have the same goal in mind in the end, and thats the riddance of the worlds evil, and the triumph of peace. Does war fit into the ideals of Christ. Can one be a christian and still participate in war, and actually be doing god justice? My view will differ with those of you who may be married, or have friends, or children in the service, and dont get me wrong, i still salute them and shake their hands. to me, they know not what they do, but their heart (if they are not doing it for a future house, or money, or security, but for the people) is in the right place, and they put their life on the line for it, which is greatly appreciated, no dout. I just see war and battles like people trying to put water on a grease fire, seems like the only thing around that will help, but it only perpetuates the problem by causeing more fires. shall we not kill? can we turn the other cheek? some say killing one to save thousands is good, but i feel the reprecusion of the one killing will in one way, shape, or form, result in the killing of those thousands anyways. are the people we kill across the ocean not our neighbors too? id love your thoughts, agree or disagree again, i think we will all have the same goal, and thats peace in the end. |
|  |
|
05-22-2007, 10:09 PM
| #2 | |
| Horseman #2 Staff  Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 19,228
Tokenz: 5,689 | Re: christ and war Quote:
Doesn't the Bible talk about a huge final war between Jerusalem and the armies of the antichrist (it's been a while, but I think I remember that)? If so, then there's at least one war god is ok with. That's the exception though. I don't think any war exemplifies the christian ideals as I understand them.
__________________ Charter Member of The Conservatives In Exile 11/5/2008  | |
|
| |
|
05-22-2007, 10:24 PM
| #3 | |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: concord, nh
Posts: 447
Tokenz: 12 | Re: christ and war Quote:
| |
|
| |
|
05-22-2007, 11:31 PM
| #4 |
| Member  Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,562
Tokenz: 8,402 | Re: christ and war "Thou shalt not kill" There's your answer. |
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 11:08 AM
| #5 |
| Member  Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,662
Tokenz: 1,777 | Re: christ and war sure, thou shalt not kill, but there's also that story of king david i think painting crosses on all the shields of his soldiers and god blessing them to kill. as for christ, people say he said turn the other cheek. so no, i dont think war fits in with christ.
__________________ Genius and Insanity are only separated by varying degrees of success. |
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 04:15 PM
| #6 |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,562
Tokenz: 8,402 | Re: christ and war Yeah, if anything thats just another contradictory story in the bible and other literary works. |
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 04:29 PM
| #7 | |||||
| V.I.P User Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,325
Tokenz: 2,024 | Re: christ and war My thoughts: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________ "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948 | |||||
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 04:33 PM
| #8 |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,562
Tokenz: 8,402 | Re: christ and war What about the Crusades? |
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 08:46 PM
| #9 | |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: concord, nh
Posts: 447
Tokenz: 12 | Re: christ and war Quote:
so disheartening grace! "some are some arent", you cant be serious? is that compassion for man? i dont believe self defense gets some special pass either, or jesus could have done something, thrown a fist back, and still been called perfect, no way, no how. there may be a difference between murder and self defence, buts its all killing, thats why it says not to kill. to think that there are things that god cannot do, like stop a bullet from getting out of the chamber, is like saying god can create the universe, but he cant make a pb&j. i dont need to "defend myself" i am already defeneded | |
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 09:48 PM
| #10 |
| V.I.P User Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,325
Tokenz: 2,024 | Re: christ and war Understand that I am not here to make anyone see things 'my' way or to do Bible study with anyone. I disagree with your 'version' of Christ and how you interpret the Bible and I prefer to respectfully agree to disagree with you Icecuban.
__________________ "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948 |
|
| |
|
05-23-2007, 09:50 PM
| #11 | |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NJ
Posts: 3,586
Tokenz: 565 | Re: christ and war Quote:
 HAHAHA | |
|
| |
|
05-24-2007, 10:17 AM
| #12 |
| Member  Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,295
Tokenz: 3,096 | Re: christ and war Onward Christian soldiers.. etc. It always amazes me how a religion that claims to be so loving & peaceful (wasn't it JC who said the meek shall inherit the earth) is so willing to kill, especially when one of the main tenets of the Bible is 'Thou shalt not kill". Every branch of christianity comes up with it's own interpretation of the bible so some can kill & some can't. At least the Muslims have the honesty to state their beliefs & carry through with them. Nearly all muslims believe that it is right to kill non muslims - mind you not all of them want to go out & do it. Allan
__________________  "To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." -- Cardinal Bellarmine, during the trial of Galileo, 1615 |
|
| |
|
05-24-2007, 12:24 PM
| #13 |
| Proud Father & Administrator  Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 8,128
Tokenz: 94,443 | Re: christ and war I found this article about Christians and war... this is what the bible has to say about war This is what Jesus said and did: In the Sermon of the Mount: This Sermon, called the Constitution of Christianity, contains in Mat. 5 the "Law of Christ" of Gal.6:2. In it Jesus fulfilled the Law introducing several changes in Matthew 5:17-48. One of them is about aggression, defense and war: You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (Mat.5:33-41). No "eye for eye" in Christianity, but "turn the other cheek"... no revenge, no war... it is difficult to justify even the just, defensive war if one takes seriously the message of the Sermon on the Mount, which is the heart of the Gospel. Just Love!... put the other cheek... he steals your tunic?, give him your cloak as well... it sounds incredible... impossible to follow... it is the Law of Christ, the Prince of Peace and of joy and of love... This is Christianity!. At Gethsemane: Jesus is telling us what he told Peter: "Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest, and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?. But how then should the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?"... "But Jesus said, "No more of this!" And he touched his ear and healed him." (Mat.26:50-54, Lk.22:51)... The weapons Jesus left us are prayer and forgiveness, and love and service, trusting always in the Lord... never the sword, Jesus will bring the sword!. Paul in Romans: 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil... not "an eye for an eye", but "turn the other cheek", said Jesus. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord. ("Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord", says in the King James Version). 20 On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom.12:17-21). At Calvary, the same lesson: Praying forgiveness for those who crucified him, "And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Lk.23:34). Love and service and prayer and forgiveness were the weapons of Jesus, and love and service and prayer and forgiveness should always be the weapons of a Christian. The Gospel is a Good News of Peace: - It started in Bethlehem, with the announce of the angels: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men (Lk.2:14, KJV). - The first words of Jesus Resurrected: Peace be with you!... Again Jesus said, Peace be with you! (Jn.20:19,21,27). And all of this, not only in wars between nations, but also in wars within the home, wars on our streets, wars in our culture, wars within the heart... Life is not easy. Often, we cannot choose our circumstances, but we can choose how we respond to them... If I am a Christian, I should respond as a Christian... and it is the very best way!... the best way to obtain sure victory, and to live in peace, with joy and love always... yes, it is the Christian way, to trust always in the Lord, the real faith in action... Vengeance is mine!, says the Lord (Rom.8:28-39). Jesus never organized a war: Jesus fought with his words, in Matthew 23: He never killed any one, and he never organized any kind of war to kill the evil-doers of his time, not anyone!. One of the most impressive chapters of the New Testament, with the seven strong woes for his enemies, the scribes and Pharisees. Here is the seventh one: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." (Mt.23:27-28). Yes, Jesus, with His attitude, taught Christians to fight back in self-defense and in defense of the truth... with very strong words! Jesus fought also with his deeds, just with a whip out of cords: Not swords nor bombs, no blood shedding: 14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market! 17 His disciples remembered that it is written: Zeal for your house will consume me. (Jn.2:14-15, Mat.21:12-13). Yes, Jesus, with His attitude, also taught Christians to fight in defense of a good cause... but, again, he never used swords nor bombs!... never blood shedding! Jesus said: Not peace, but division I brought: 49 I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Lk.12:49-52, Mat.10:34-39). Yes, Jesus came to bring fire on the earth: The preaching of the gospel, and the pouring out of the Spirit, holy fire... the sentence above mentioned, "turn the other cheek" is already fire in itself!... that's War!, but within ourselves. And yes, Jesus did not come to bring peace, but division: The effect of just the preaching of the gospel will be division... it is not just a nice philosophy, but a life, a way of life... some will accept it, others no... and that will create division...but Jesus here is not advocating war... the way to answer any division for a Christian is not war, but "put the other cheek"!... a very divisive proposition!. Revelation predicts a time of future warfare and judgment at the return of Christ. Just as God brought judgment in the Flood, and to Sodom and Gomorrah, and in ancient Canaan, so also has He promised judgment in the future, in the Battle of Armageddon of Rev.19:11-16... all the troops of the kings of the earth "were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse" (Rev.19:21). God is still a God of "holy war." His patience is often misinterpreted as indifference. But God is not indifferent to sin. The wages of sin are still death. A day is coming when the world will reel and shake with "holy war" once again. This final herem will make Joshua's wars seem like a pea shoot next to a nuclear war! But this is not a war of men against men... it is by the Sword of the Mouth of Jesus... Yes, have always faith in Jesus, Vengeance is mine!, He says (Rom.12:19). See Commentary of the Sword of the LordCommentary on Psalm 2. source |
|
| |
|
06-04-2007, 07:23 PM
| #14 | |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: concord, nh
Posts: 447
Tokenz: 12 | Re: christ and war Quote:
and he answers why religion (esspecially chrisitanity) is blamed for war. "sounds incredible...impossible to follow". it is like saying true love allows the lover to look at others, but just as long as they dont touch. try not touching on the mind, sounds imcredible, hard to follow, even against our nature (a true cop out line). and people wonder why married life is given a drab feeling. its like religion, u dont want to do it to a T, then its going to suck somewhere down the road. | |
|
| |
Linear Mode
